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英国《电讯报》文章称基辅反攻失败将让北约失去存在意义 [复制链接]

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发表于 2023-6-18 22:05:59 |只看该作者 |正序浏览
本帖最后由 井冈山卫士 于 2023-6-18 22:08 编辑

俄罗斯卫星通讯社莫斯科6月18日电 英国观察家理查德·肯普在为《电讯报》撰写的文章中表示,北约成员国必须为乌克兰反攻的未来失败做好准备,这将使北约存在的理由受到质疑,并迫使欧洲领导人催促基辅达成和平协议。



肯普写道:“出席维尔纽斯峰会的北约成员国领导人应该问自己一个问题:如果乌克兰在北约的帮助下仍无法战胜俄罗斯,那么北约本身有什么意义?”




他指出,北约成员国领导人要做好准备,尽管西方支持乌克兰,但乌克兰的反攻可以走上任何路线,也可能不会成功。

肯普表示,北约领导人对基辅的支持越来越不自信,如果乌克兰进攻失败,法国总统马克龙和德国总理朔尔茨等人士“将恢复游说,推动基辅在年底前达成和平协议”。





乌克兰在南顿涅茨克、扎波罗热和阿尔乔莫夫斯克方向的进攻于6月4日开始,乌克兰军队的主要突击集中在前线的扎波罗热段。6月13日,俄罗斯总统普京在与战地记者举行会晤时表示,乌克兰军队在进攻中损失惨重,在任何方向上都没有成功。

泽连斯基此前表示,基辅希望在维尔纽斯的7月份北约峰会上能收到加入北约的明确邀请。他还指出,乌军方对乌克兰迄今未收到加入欧盟和北约的明确肯定回应感到失望。

俄总统新闻秘书佩斯科夫表示,克里姆林宫在密切关注乌克兰加入北约计划的有关局势,指出基辅寻求加入北约是俄对乌发动特别军事行动的一个原因。


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14#
发表于 2023-7-21 11:47:41 |只看该作者
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13#
发表于 2023-6-19 23:27:06 |只看该作者
xin 发表于 2023-6-19 16:57
打了引号的嘛,说的就是打破了世人长期以来的刻板印象。

说实话,这真的打破了我的传统印象。

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12#
发表于 2023-6-19 16:57:19 |只看该作者
哈哈一一笑笑 发表于 2023-6-18 23:28
其实俄军的武器不算“大老粗”,关注了一下近几个月的前线视频,俄军的精确制导武器使用效果是不错的。 ...

打了引号的嘛,说的就是打破了世人长期以来的刻板印象。

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哈哈一一笑笑  好的  发表于 2023-6-19 23:24:43

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11#
发表于 2023-6-19 02:05:39 |只看该作者
本帖最后由 井冈山卫士 于 2023-6-19 02:06 编辑

Let's talk about defense in depth.  Seems appropriate at the moment.A thread:




Most field manuals will give you a map like this and talk in circles around how this tactic is actually supposed to work, probably because most soldiers (with good reason) don't particularly like admitting to trading lives for space and time.






Regardless, it is simple, easy to execute, and works extremely well.Everyone is all gung-ho to do a slick mobile defense until they find out that if they miss the counterattack timing by an hour the entire plan falls apart.




The standard way to deploy for this (and for many other missions) is with a "two up, one back" arrangement, where a unit deploys two of its three subcomponents forward with one in reserve.This provides adequate coverage of the front line with an adequate reserve.

Here we see a "heavy" division deployed in exactly such an arrangement, with two brigades forward and one in reserve, and each of the forward brigades deploying two of their battalions forward with one in local reserve.A screen is deployed forward of the defense proper.




As is noted on the template, each battalion on the front line has ten kilometers of frontage - quite easy to cover for a heavy unit.  This works out to a line of front-line platoon battle positions a kilometer or two apart, simple enough to cover with patrols and heavy weapons.




This unit has also had plenty of time to dig in and has established three separate obstacle belts.Each of them is a complex obstacle that will require hours of work by sappers to breach.










But we're not fighting this as a division, we're fighting at the corps level.  This is a heavy corps deployed in a defense in depth across a 160km front, with four divisions forward and one in reserve.This force has a total of 45 maneuver battalions available, 9 per division.




It's an old military rule of thumb that if you want to attack successfully you need a 3:1 advantage over the enemy.  Every defending soldier can be expected to incapacitate two attackers before falling himself, and the third attacker will finally take the position.




With that being said, it's astonishingly rare that one army is able to just gain a theater-wide 3:1 advantage.  Generally what happens is one army amasses a more local superiority to allow a breakthrough and collapse the front.

Here, the enemy has gained a 2:1 overall numerical advantage, but by massing most of their force against a single sector they'll achieve a 7:1 advantage against the targeted division.  The remaining forces will conduct local attacks to tie down the other front-line units.




The screen falls back as the enemy attacks.  The first wave in the breakthrough sector is 18 battalions - two whole divisions set against the four front-line battalions at 4.5:1 odds, dropping to 3:1 as the brigade reserves move up.




After an intense battle the first line is breached and the two front-line brigades are wiped out, taking 12 enemy battalions with them.  There are modest losses on the flanks.As the enemy main effort becomes apparent, reserves converge from the flanking divisions and corps.




Now facing 14 battalions in the breakthrough zone, the enemy commits a full 30 battalions to smash through the second defensive line.More distant reserves are still converging on the growing salient, and the fixing attacks on the flanks continue.




Even this massive force struggles to make headway, but eventually smashes through the second defensive line at the cost of almost every unit on both sides of the main assault rendered combat-ineffective.All reserves are committed to hold the final line.




Now running out of reserves, the enemy commits their last 18 battalions in an attempt to crack the third line.  This time, growing operational friction (they're now attempting a third breach 20km deep into the position) and declining numerical advantage defeat the attack.




The enemy consolidates and transitions back to the defense, with three-quarters of their total force (some 68 battalions) out of action after punching a 40x20km dent into the line.Losses on the blue side, while lighter overall, are proportionally severe at 32 battalions.




As an aside, Red owns most of the battlefield and will be able to salvage damaged and abandoned equipment left on the field.




Now, it should be noted this is an "all else equal" analysis.  Fire and air superiority will both affect the battlefield in critical ways - fire superiority by easing (or steepening!) the brutal 2:1 loss ratio and air superiority by interfering with reserve movement.

How is this relevant to Ukraine?  Well, that corps defensive layout is a "doctrinal template" that can be applied to existing terrain as a first step to analyze force dispositions.

The front line in Zaporozhe happens to be about 160km long.  Let's see what the Russian defensive scheme looks like with it applied.It even fits closely into the known Russian obstacle belts.  I assume (reasonably) there's a less visible mine belt along the contact line.




Not only can the Russians be expected to rapidly gain and keep fire and air superiority across the battlefield (and move in reinforcements from out of sector), but I don't know where the Ukrainians expect to get the 100+ battalions they'd need to actually defeat this scheme from.






And if you think I'm being optimistic on the Russians here, take your concerns up with EUCOM.  Gen. Cavoli's recent lukewarm public comments on Ukrainian prospects going forward speak for themselves.





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井冈山卫士  纵深防御简介  发表于 2023-6-19 02:06:02

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10#
发表于 2023-6-19 01:08:09 |只看该作者
the tactics are pretty obvious - the area before the 1st line of defense (some call it screening or security zone) was designed to fall within 72h - in that zone RF was supposed to create a buffer - and retreat when attacks are too heavy - and then smash them with artillery and air force - when enemy is retreating - RF is going back - if enemy has the power to push forward - retreat further and repeat until the real 1st line is reached.
The 1st line (better defended) was supposed to hold for a week or so - here forces from the 2nd DL are helping out if line is breached.
The strongest line is the 3rd - but is then supported by flank attacks against the weakened wedge.
Ukrainians did not even reach the 1st line yet.

https://twitter.com/GeromanAT/status/1670341450960195584

俄军在第一道防线之前的警戒阵地本来只准备守72小时。现在乌军打了两个星期,都还没摸到第一道防线。

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9#
发表于 2023-6-19 00:00:17 |只看该作者
哈哈一一笑笑 发表于 2023-6-18 23:28
其实俄军的武器不算“大老粗”,关注了一下近几个月的前线视频,俄军的精确制导武器使用效果是不错的。 ...

俄军大老粗也是西方资产阶级和中文纳粹粉丝宣传的神话

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8#
发表于 2023-6-18 23:51:30 |只看该作者

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7#
发表于 2023-6-18 23:28:03 |只看该作者
xin 发表于 2023-6-18 22:32
这次的战争也让西方帝国主义的“天兵神器”的本质显露出来,“高新精”的西方神器打不过“老大粗”的俄罗斯 ...

其实俄军的武器不算“大老粗”,关注了一下近几个月的前线视频,俄军的精确制导武器使用效果是不错的。

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6#
发表于 2023-6-18 23:06:48 |只看该作者
另外,y1s1,至少从这篇文章的水准来看,这个英国观察家比起约翰逊、特拉斯、苏纳克那些庸碌无为之流更适合首相的位置。

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